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 Informations about a Curtiss P-40, I\'m a Flying Tigers Fan from Germany (12 Replies, Read 34360 times)
Joma
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Hello!
Please excuse my bad English, I\'ll try my best.
I\'m looking vor Informations about a Curtiss P-40 Number: 26926/48.
I build it as an RC Modell and would like to know more about it\'s History.
When was it build? Who has flown it?  18 Victorys? Wow!

Thank You!
Greetings from Germany!

Joma
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Guten Tag, Joma.  Thanks for your inquiry and welcome to the AVG/Flying Tigers
Public Forum.

Great job on your construction of a Flying Tiger P-40, a legendary aircraft.  The numbering is probably more of a historic representation of David Lee "Tex" Hill's aircraft when he flew for the AVG and then the USAAF in the CBI (China-Burma-India) theater of operations.  His first a/c was indeed #48 in the 2nd Pursuit Squadron (the Panda Bears).  Besides the #48 (Sqdn. number) the only other number clearly visible was the AVG # on the tail.  It was P-8134 (the Curtiss Serial # was 15515, but was not readily visible).  The entire aircraft was olive drab and the P-8134 was in white.  Tex Hill became Sqdn. Leader of the 2nd Pursuit Sqdn. upon the death of its leader, John "Scarsdale Jack" Newkirk.  Later, Tex Hill flew a P-40E model numbered 108, which he flew in action at the Salween River Gorge. 

While flying with the AVG, Tex Hill is credited with 12.25 victories.  He added an
additional 6 victories while CO of the 75th Fighter Sqdn. (23FG) and then CO of
the 23rd Fighter Group on his second tour in the US Army Air Force.  Thus his total confirmed is 18.25.

Joma, the number 29629 on the tail appears to be from the USAAF era in the CBI of either the 23FG or the successor 14th Air Force.  The AVG, 23FG & 14AF all flew P-40s with the sharkmouth image painted on the nose.  The 75th FS was known as the Tiger Sharks, and Tex's callsign was "SHARK ONE".  Modern day COs of the 23FG also use SHARK ONE (they now fly the A-10).

Can anyone help with that number 29629 on the tail of Joma's model?  One thing is certain----the Sqdn #48 would not appear on the same aircraft as the
longer (and later dated) #29629.  That's why I guessed that it might be a combination for historic purposes.  The 18 victories is close to being correct (as
the actual total is 18.25).  Also, your model is likely a P40-E model (3 50 cal. MGs
in each wing and fitted with bomb racks) with #48 being a B-model.  The paint
scheme is also from a later time.

Here's some additional info on Tex Hill for you:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Lee_%22Tex%22_Hill
    www.acepilots.com/cbi/hill.html

Hope this info. helps you, Joma.
Tripp

BTW, AVG armorer Chuck Baisden monitors this Forum and can provide much more detailed info. than I can.


Edited by aaatripp : March 13, 2011, 9:38 pm

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
Joma
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Thank You Tripp!

That's a lot of Information!
I'm still a bit confused about the Modell/Type
The Construction Plan (Decals includet) said it's a P-40 E, but now I found at: http://www.warbirdregistry.org a P-40 N with the Number 29629.
The most Pictures I found in the Web of Planes with that Number are also P-40 N, but I still find them in diverent Color Scheme's.

I'm bulding the Plane for Years, and now it's ready to fly.
I can't wait for Springtime and good Weather.
If you like you can have a look at the constuction and the first rollout:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia3z1Mlcy3o

Thank you very much!
Greetings from Germany!

Joma
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Hi Joma,

The E & N models of the Curtiss-Wright P-40 both had 6 50cal MGs mounted in the wings (3 on each side).  I don't know any distinguishing features to tell them apart and maybe other Forum members can help out on this question.  If you found the same tail # online, that link should provide more info. for you.

The CBI Theater of Operations was considered a "backwater" due to the "Germany First" strategic policy of the Allies.  Therefore, the CBI recvd. less supplies and older aircraft.  Tex Hill's book describes how they recognized some of the serial numbers on P-51A a/c as planes they had been flying in type training in Florida.  USAAF Chief Gen. Hap Arnold argued with Tex that they were sending good planes out to the CBI.  After he did some checking he found
out that he had been given false info. and that the CBI was indeed receiving old & worn out P-51s.  They finally increased the flow to the CBI, but only when
it was too late to save the 14AF airfields in eastern China.

I will look at your model.  Hope this info. helps a bit.  Where are you in Germany?  I have visited some towns....a very beautiful country.
Tripp

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
Joma
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Hi Tripp!

As far as I know the P-40N had a stronger armor-plating but also was heavier.
But the Difference you see at first is the Canopy.

The P-40E: http://www.military-aircraft.org.uk/ww2-fighter-planes/curtis-p4 0e-kittyhawk-1a-ww2-fighter.htm

The P-40N: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Curtiss_P-40N .jpg for a better view backwards.

To answer your Question: I live in Trier - the oldest Town of Germany,
and here are 2 new Pics I made today in my Frontyard. I'm very Proud of my Pilot:


Edited by Joma : March 14, 2011, 8:52 am
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
SilverDollar
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Hey Joma.  That's a great looking model.  I'm glad to see another model builder here on the site.  I also build models but large scale plastic static models. You
're absolutely right.  Your P40 is definitely in an E configuration.  Are those the decals that came in the kit?  That itself can explain the confusion. 

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Yes, Joma.  Great job on the pilot.  Here's a link to help you with more info. on the AVG bloodchit which was sewn to the back of the pilot's jacket:
  http://cbi-theater-4.home.comcast.net/~cbi-theater-4/bloodchit/b loodchit.html

I have visited Trier back in 1988 and saw the Roman gate.  When driving from Bernkastel I remember crossing a big bridge over the river and then entering Trier.  You are lucky to live in such a beautiful & historic town.

The 12-pointed stars look great.  Only the AVG P-40s displayed them.  The P-40s of the 23FG & 14AF would have displayed the star & bars of the USAAF.  The blue stripe around the empenage and #48 are correct for an a/c of the 2nd Pursuit Sqdn. (the Panda Bears).  The AVG leaping tiger is correct, but the tiger is leaping from a blue V (see above on this page for logo).  Also, I believe the victories are painted only on the port (left) side of the fuselage.

I believe that the French actually contracted for P-40B Tomahawks.  When France fell in spring '40 the Brits took over the order for the 100 P-40Bs.  Claire
Chennault & Burdette Wright worked with the Brits and convinced them to release the 100 P-40Bs for China (to be flown by the AVG) in return for receiving
later improved models....likely the P-40E Kittyhawks.

With the modifications to the P-40B by the AVG, some say it should be referred
to as a P-40C.  Chuck Baisden can probably speak to this better than anyone
else.  Also, Chuck should be able to tell us if the P-40Es ferried to the AVG from
Africa via India sported the camoflage paint scheme displayed on your model.

As you can see there is a balance between getting all of these many details exactly correct vs. having a general historic representation.  As the modeler you
will have to decide which you prefer.....I know Silver Dollar can related more of
this to you from his models and his painted jackets.  Richard Peacher is on this
Forum as well and knows many of the details as well.

Hey guys....comments to help Joma?  (danke)
Tripp

P.S.  On Tues. I'm going with two German naval officers to see the propellers
from the U-853 which was sunk just off our coast on 5 May 45 (after Adm.
Doenitz gave the fleet orders to return to port).  Should be interesting!


Edited by aaatripp : March 14, 2011, 10:34 pm

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Joma----here's a photo for you of the 45cal pistol and leather holster worn by
Tex Hill while he was in the CBI.  It is on display in the Tex Hill CBI Wing of the Ntl. Museum of the Pacific War in Fredericksburg, TX (ie. The Nimitz Museum)  Note that
Tex's naval aviator card was signed by.....Admiral Chester W. Nimitz....wow!  (Tex
was a carrier pilot when recruited into the AVG in spring '41).  After the war Tex commanded the Texas Air National Guard and retired as a Brigadier General.
Tripp


Edited by aaatripp : March 14, 2011, 10:46 pm

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Tripp

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AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
tibor
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Just to clear it up a bit, the P-40N was lighter than the P-40E (by about 350 pounds).  Also, the glass canopy wrapped all the way over the fuselage behind the pilot on the N rather than just the side windows on the earlier models.  The N was also a bit longer (by 2 feet, 2 inches) and was the fastest of the Warhawks, hitting 378 mph at 10,000 ft.  It was also the most numerous with over 15,000 built. 

Oh, I almost forgot... Joma, fantastic model.  I really like the retractable landing gear.  That is a great plane you\'ve made.  Definitely a P-40E, which was greatly appreciated by the AVG.  It had a lot more firepower (6x .50 caliber machine guns rather than the 2x.50 and 4x.303 in the P-40Bs), and it had an external rack for either an extra fuel tank or bomb, not to mention a military grade radio instead of the cheap civilian ones.  Tough airplane.  You just need to find a Japanese plane to dive down on and chew up!


Edited by tibor : March 24, 2011, 7:51 pm
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
slingshot392
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That's a really nice radio control model, good job on it?  Is that the Top Flight kit?  Looks like one I had many years ago.

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P-40 Warhawk
http://www.p40warhawk.com/
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
A brief followup to some details of earlier discussions on this thread:

Joma----
Again, thanks for posting photos your great model of Tex Hill's P-40B #48.  Actually #48, as a B-model, would have had two 30 cal MGs in each wing, not three (as in the E & N models).  For a more historically accurate a/c, Tex flew a P-40E #108 in May '42 on the famous attack on the Imperial Japanese Army at the Salween River Gorge.  The truth about #48 is that it was washed out in a landing accident on Dec. 10, 1941.  Tex went aloft to intercept a Japanese aircraft and, when returning to base, he landed long and still attempted to stick his landing.  Unfortunately, Tex ran off the end of the runway and heavily damaged his a/c.  See p. 116 of the book TEX HILL:  FLYING TIGER for a photo of the wrecked #48.  The reality is that Tex's #48 never made it into combat against the Japanese----So, the most popular a/c portrayed by most modelers is a historic tribute to Tex Hill and his #48.

Tibor-----
3rd Sqdn. armorer Chuck Baisden has written on this Forum that they had 30s in the wings of the P-40Bs, not the .303 which you mentioned.

Thanks again for your interest in the history of the AVG.


Edited by aaatripp : July 12, 2016, 8:04 am

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
tibor
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Hi aaa trip,

Now that you mention that, I do remember reading that they pulled the British-spec .303s and replaced them with standard 30 cal. 
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Informations about a Curtiss P-40
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Tibor----

To be specific, FYI, I believe that the P-40Bs were shipped out of the Curtiss-Wright plant in Buffalo, NY without MGs or radios.  Both were installed after the a/c were ferried in to Toungoo from the CAMCO assembly operations at Mingaladon Airfield in Rangoon, Burma.  Also, only the ring-and-post gunsights were included.  AVG pilot Charlie Mott was involved with the creation of an electrical gunsight for the AVG a/c.


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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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