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Missing Names
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
All----please note that calls to "grandfather" have ceased for over a week and I now doubt that the real story will ever emerge.  Maybe the moderators should, mercifully, pull the plug on this.

Any reasonable person would have provided some verifiable info.


Edited by aaatripp : October 30, 2010, 10:09 am

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Missing Names
mayor
Group: Member
Post Group: Working Member
Posts: 124
Status:

If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong
Well, BillC, since you aren't one of the moderators, who appointed you as our guard dog?

If this turns out to be a legitimate request, you'll be duly apologetic, I would imagine.

If it isn't, just ignore it.....simple as that....no one hurt, either way.

Personal histories, as they get passed down, over the years, get muddled. In my own case, for years, everyone thought my Grandfather was with Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders in the Spanish American War. Well turns out he wasn't.......wasn't even in the Spanish American War......but in the Phillipines during the Phillipine Insurrection.

Nothing against you, Bill......I understand where you're coming from......I just thought it was a little heavy handed.
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Missing Names
SilverDollar
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Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 344
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  :-x I'm having trouble with my editing here.  Hang on, folks.

Edited by SilverDollar : October 30, 2010, 12:21 pm

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Missing Names
BillC
Group: Member
Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 380
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The story of this 'grandfather' made no sense from the beginning, but we humored them in an attempt to discover if this was just someone who had gotten their wires crossed. It soon became apparent that this was just a hoax. The story changed with every post as one contradiction after another was pointed out. I'm still not sure what the grandfather's name was supposed to be! At one point, they were claiming he used Moose Moss' name. A difficult claim to swallow, as Moose was in the AVG the entire time. A contradiction never explained. He was 'asked by Bissell' to stay on with the 14th, a unit that didn't exist till almost a year later. He supposedly left the AVG after disbanding and went back to the states, yet he was also in the CBI and knew Stillwell, and worked for CAMCO. He was supposed to have lied about his name and age, because of his family, to get into the AVG, but we were told that his father introduced him to Jack Newkirk, who 'brought' him into the AVG under an assumed name.  He was to have asked about Arvid Olsen...and "somebody" Oley. Arvid and Oley are one in the same person. Grandfather said he was 'a Panda'. He would have known to call the 2nd squadron Panda Bears. There were many contradictions as the story went on, and many questions that went unanswered.  A number of the claims were later redacted without explanation. When challenged by one of the moderators and myself to provide some kind of proof, none was forthcoming. As you can see, once evidence of some sort was requested, the story teller disappeared....As far as being a guard dog. I offer no apologies for wanting to protect the memory, history, and service of the AVG. All too soon, it will be left only to the following generation to preserve the AVG history. Honest inquiries are always dealt with in a respectful manner, as was this one...initially, till it became clear that there likely was no grandfather, just someone playing games.


Edited by BillC : October 30, 2010, 11:22 am
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Missing Names
hawkadoodle
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 38
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I have not dissapeared, it was not a hoax. My grandfather has been at the VA hospital sitting with a dying friend ( not that bill will believe me) and I have not posted much else trying to "get my ducks in a row" as was stated. Before posting anything else. I have greatly appreciated the help and directions to search in (ie. The books and pictures) so it may take me sometime, but I am around. I just didn't want to be attacked anymore for my mistakes. I understand wanting to protect the integrity of the original group and it's stories but there is always a chance that there are undiscovered ones. Didn't " pappy" b. Fly under another name for awhile?! It came out later because of the type of person he was. So you just never know. I'm still here, and a moderator will be contacted eventually. In the mean time anyone with additional suggestions on how to find information and pictures woul be really appreciated.
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Missing Names
hawkadoodle
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Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 38
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Ps it is not as "simple" as you think
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Missing Names
SilverDollar
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Posts: 344
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Quote From : mayor October 30, 2010, 9:44 am
Well, BillC, since you aren't one of the moderators, who appointed you as our guard dog?

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Now I think I have it right. 

Here's the scoop on that.  Bill is definitely a member in good standing of this group and more than understands the purpose of this site. His extensive knowlege of the AVG history is unrefutable.  Any member in good standing in this group, moderator or not has the right and especially the responsibility to ensure that the history this site is concerned with never, ever becomes prey for the revisionists to do their damage.  if Bill for whatever reason can't act as guard dog, then I'll step up and do the same.  It's up to the following generations to make sure the AVG history doesn't get revised and turned to garbage.  That's all we're doing.  Nuff said.

Edited by SilverDollar : October 30, 2010, 12:36 pm

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Missing Names
mayor
Group: Member
Post Group: Working Member
Posts: 124
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If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong
Oh, you mean the history I was relating about Gen. Scott on another thread, that I got from his own writings, that people said I was wrong about? THAT kind of history?
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Missing Names
BillC
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It's a shame our VA hospitals don't have telephones. Always some impediment. The check's in the mail.


Edited by BillC : October 30, 2010, 1:14 pm
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Missing Names
SilverDollar
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Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 344
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Quote From : mayor October 30, 2010, 12:41 pm
Oh, you mean the history I was relating about Gen. Scott on another thread, that I got from his own writings, that people said I was wrong about? THAT kind of history?


Wha??? I wasn't referring to anything you said, mayor.  I also read God is My Copilot.  I didn't think you were wrong about Gen Scott.  He may be a huge story teller but he's no liar.  Sometimes it takes a bit of time and effort to make sure all the facts right.  That's all the members were attempting to do with all their suggestions.  It just wasn't happening. 

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Missing Names
hawkadoodle
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Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 38
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Really Bill? Really?
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Missing Names
BillC
Group: Member
Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 380
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Really. We still don't even have a name to investigate...not even a name. Surely, you must know his name. Was that reply meant to explain all the contradictions that continue to go unanswered?


Edited by BillC : October 30, 2010, 10:50 pm
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Missing Names
BillC
Group: Member
Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 380
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                                      SilverDollar, Thanks for the kind words. While I probably know more than the average person about the AVG, there are those whose knowledge easily surpasses mine...like Chuck Baisden and Frank Losonsky...the real guys that were there...and the spouses of  AVG members like Jo Neal and Lydia Rossi...and other forum members like AVGBOB, who helped publish several of the autobiographies by AVG members. Glad to hear that you are willing to stand by the AVG. I don't think you'll ever regret it.


Edited by BillC : October 30, 2010, 11:38 pm
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Missing Names
BillC
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Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 380
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Quote From : hawkadoodle October 30, 2010, 11:54 am
I have not dissapeared, it was not a hoax. My grandfather has been at the VA hospital sitting with a dying friend ( not that bill will believe me) and I have not posted much else trying to "get my ducks in a row" as was stated. Before posting anything else. I have greatly appreciated the help and directions to search in (ie. The books and pictures) so it may take me sometime, but I am around. I just didn't want to be attacked anymore for my mistakes. I understand wanting to protect the integrity of the original group and it's stories but there is always a chance that there are undiscovered ones. Didn't " pappy" b. Fly under another name for awhile?! It came out later because of the type of person he was. So you just never know. I'm still here, and a moderator will be contacted eventually. In the mean time anyone with additional suggestions on how to find information and pictures woul be really appreciated.
Greg "Pappy" Boyington never flew under another name that I heard of. Pure fiction. A straw to grasp on to. We don't 'attack' people for honest  mistakes. But we don't swallow fairy tales without real evidence. Do you understand how small a group the AVG was? Someone just doesn't "hide" there, unknown to the other members. This wasn't the 14th AF with 15-20k members.  Again...if you want to have any credibility, provide this 'grandfather's' name and the name that you say that he used in the AVG. That name has to be on the AVG roles. Research can begin at that point to verify your claims. If you cannot provide such a basic piece of information you will not be taken seriously and are just wasting our time.
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Missing Names
mayor
Group: Member
Post Group: Working Member
Posts: 124
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If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong
BillC........I'm coming around to your way of thinking. Something that bothered me was the claim that he had to lie about his age to get into the AVG. Well, if he was underage, I doubt if he was qualified enough in aviation, either as a pilot or otherwise, to get into the AVG as, if I recall correctly, they only took qualified people.


It is very simple.....all he needs to do is provide a name. Any name.
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