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 Tigers' Markings (13 Replies, Read 15175 times)
mayor
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If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong
I'm sure this has been discussed on there before, but I've never seen it....

What is the significance in the difference between the leaping tiger's emblems on the aircraft? Some of them are just a leaping tiger and others have it leaping out of the "V".
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Tigers' Markings
Lincoln
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I've never read that the V was a separate applique from the Tiger, I would guess it was a personal choice and some of the AVG pilots chose to trim it off.
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mickelman
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Quote From : mayor December 29, 2015, 12:00 pm
Some of them are just a leaping tiger and others have it leaping out of the "V".


I believe there were two or three pieces. Otherwise you would not see the background between the Bengal tiger and the bars of the V.
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aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
In modern times the decal has been produced, approx. six sets of decals (2) for each side of the fuselage.  The decal kits had the entire leaping tiger and Victory V.
As for the decals which arrived from the States for use by the AVG in early 1942, we will check with the two known living AVG ground personnel to see if they can provide any details.  We know that the decals were designed by the Walt Disney studio but we need to learn if Disney also produced the decals, or if CAMCO perhaps commissioned their production with a local printer.

Tripp


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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, Historian
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Lincoln
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The thing that suggests to me that it was one piece is that the angle of the tiger in the V doesn't appear to change in the photos I've seen of the tiger with the V.  The Angle that it has been applied varies slightly, but the tiger in the V seems pretty consistent.
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jpstout
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The only decal I know of had the "V" with the Tiger in a single piece. Per some of my more learned colleagues, it was difficult to apply with the "V" intact.  An original and unused decal sold a couple years ago, brought home by an AVG vet, and had the "V", but I am unable to find the photos from the seller.  Another intact decal is found with the William Reed exhibit at the museum in Des Moines and is attached.  I have a full decal on painted masonite attributed to the officers bar in Kunming.  I will include a cropped shot of the tail and "V" where they intersect.  Is it possible that the first decals received had no "V"? It has been mentioned, but I have not seen any proof of that.  Hopefully your contacts can enlighten us.  Hope this helps.

regards,
pat

Edited by jpstout : January 8, 2016, 2:44 pm
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BillC
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As I recall, Ed Fobes had the leaping tiger portion on a red footlocker or case. Never thought to ask what happened to the V. There's a color picture of it in the Pistole book. Sadly, I believe it was destroyed in a fire at the museum where it was kept
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LydiaRossi
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Widow of AVG pilot J. R. Rossi
Trail of the Ed Fobes suitcase that had an original decal.

Ed gave the suitcase to Pistole. Dick Rossi bought the whole Pistole collection on behalf of the AVGFTA from Larry about 30 years ago, including the suitcase.
The suitcase was loaned to the Champlain Museum (American Fighter Aces), Mesa AZ along with many other items from the collection.
Champlain sold his museum collection to The Museum of Flight in Seattle about 15 years ago. Many of the items that came from their AVGFTA collection was sent to San Antonio for a museum that was to open across from the Alamo. That museum never happened, and the collection was subsequently taken to Tex Hill's garage in San Antonio.
In the meantime, the AVGFTA had voted to make the Seattle museum their archival museum, so the museum sent people to Tex's garage, packed up all the items he had there and shipped them up to Seattle.
The suitcase was on the list of items that went to Seattle.
We have never seen it again, but then, we have only seen a handful of the many items that were donated to them. Presumably, it is in storage in Seattle, somewhere in their archives.
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BillC
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When I asked in Ed, 2004 or 2005, whatever happened to the suitcase, he related the story about it being lost in a fire at a museum. That's my only knowledge of it. As there reportedly had been some controversy related to returning the AVG items that were supposed to only be on loan for the book, perhaps that was what Ed was told, when he inquired about its return.
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ColonelFOG
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I have been seeking info about the FT emblem and V topic for a short while now.
One curiosity is that there appear to me to be at least two versions of the tiger.

One version is the commonly seen Tiger or Tiger-with-V that has lighter-colored areas on the tigers nose, belly, and paws.

The photo of the one sold at auction not long ago, and the one seen in the photo of the preserved suitcase appear to show a tiger that does not have these lighter-colored areas.
The B&W photo of the original suitcase seems to clearly shows the lighter areas, setting off the darker three dots on the front paw.

Please compare each of the photos in relation to the emblem previously posted in this thread. Thanks.

Maybe my eyes are deceiving me?

Any comment on this?

Also, if you look closely at the suitcase in the color photo, the area where the V and tail would have intersected appears to have been trimmed. Part of the lower black border on the tail is missing, as if something had been cut off in a straight line.

Furthermore, some tigers look to have two different colored Vs (one medium blue, the other sky blue).
And, some appear to have two different colored wings (one white, the other light blue)

Could it be that there were multiple production runs of the emblems, or mulitple facilities producing them? Maybe one run created a one piece type, and one run had those that came in multiple pieces (perhaps a run made after discovering the large decals were hard to apply)? This might explain some confusion over how many pieces comprised the emblem, as well as account for the apparent variations in coloring.

???

Edited by ColonelFOG : January 18, 2016, 8:05 pm
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mickelman
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The color in 1940s Kodachrome (it was almost always Kodachrome) really can't be relied upon, seventy-five years later. Read the discussion in Terrill Clements's "Colours and Markings" book from Osprey on the subject of the underwing and belly paint.

To me, the photo of Mr Forbes's suitcase decal looks like it might be a copy (by a Chinese artist, could that be?). The Tiger looks angry, whereas the one show on this website is more, um, CUTE, as you would expect from the Walt Disney Studios.
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LydiaRossi
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Widow of AVG pilot J. R. Rossi
Bill C......FYI........
The fire that consumed many AVG items at the San Diego Aerospace Museum happened in 1978.
Dick bought the collection from Larry Pistole around 1985. Ed's suitcase was part of what was in the collection.
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BillC
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Thanks for the clarification Lydia. Guess time has it's effects on the memory.
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aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Lydia----

Thanks, as always, for providing the background info on the extensive collection of AVG memorabilia and the journey from around the country to Texas to Seattle.
This will help our AVG Forum members to understand about these items and some of the ones sadly lost in the San Diego museum fire.

Tripp


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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, Historian
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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