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 Percy Bartelt, No honorable discharge? (9 Replies, Read 13957 times)
susan_jimison
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http://www.dl-online.com/life/3797676-deceased-dl-ace-served-fly ing-tiger

Ran across this online. Wasn't he dishonorably discharged from the AVG?
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Percy Barlett
SilverDollar
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If not finishing the CAMCO contract denotes a dishonorable discharge, then he had one.  I think his name was spelled Bartelt.


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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Percy Barlett
susan_jimison
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Oops you are right. I misspelled his name. I can't remember the circumstances of why he left. Perhaps his family never new. Does not take away from all he did after the Flying Tigers for sure.
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Percy Barlett
SilverDollar
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It's the reason a volunteer left that makes a big difference.  If he had to leave because of a family situation, I could understand that.  If he left because of a disability of smoking, I understand that too.  In those cases, I don't think a member should be given a dishonorable discharge.  As for any of the other reasons, I make no judgements at all since I wasn't there.  It doesn't diminish anything from their accomplishments while a volunteer.

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Percy Barlett
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Please allow me to clarify in this sensitive area.


Those that successfully completed their CAMCO contracts with the AVG received Honorable Discharges from the AVG.  For example, George Burgard's collection shows his AVG card signed by Maj. Gen. Claire L. Chennault which says:

      "This is to certify that George T. Burgard was a member of the original
        Flying Tigers who served as the American Volunteer Group of the Chinese
        Air Force under the command of Major General Claire L. Chennault during
        1941 and until the organization was disbanded on July 4, 1942.  He holds
        an Honorable Discharge from this organization."  (signed CLC commander)

Also, the 23 who died during AVG service and others who were MIA/POWs were also considered as AVG members in good standing.

NOTE:  Two AVG members jumped ship in Singapore and did not even show up in Rangoon.  Others left early....they quit and broke their contract, knowing that CAMCO couldn't do anything to civilians.  Later, when others quit or were discharged they were reported to the US military and possibly considered deserters during wartime, especially if they joined the AVG in order to get out of military service.  There were no Dishonorable Discharges that I am aware of.

There were cases where the AVG member was discharged and we prefer not to discuss the circumstances publicly out of respect for their living family members.
Percy Bartelt, an AVG ace, was one of these.

Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museum Committee
Flying Tigers Association


Edited by aaatripp : August 17, 2015, 4:12 pm

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Percy Barlett
susan_jimison
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Thanks for that Tripp. Bartelt had an amazing career post Flying Tigers.


http://acesofww2.com/USA/aces/bartelt/

This article shows the contract for CAMCO. Priceless document!
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Percy Barlett
SilverDollar
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Quote From : SilverDollar August 16, 2015, 2:33 pm
It's the reason a volunteer left that makes a big difference.  If he had to leave because of a family situation, I could understand that.  If he left because of a disability of smoking, I understand that too.  In those cases, I don't think a member should be given a dishonorable discharge.  As for any of the other reasons, I make no judgements at all since I wasn't there.  It doesn't diminish anything from their accomplishments while a volunteer.


What the heck is disability of smoking??  That's my stupid auto correct.  I don't remember what it was before but it definitely was not disability of smoking.  Oh the humanities!


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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Percy Barlett
BenL
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There was also Noel Bacon, who left with Chennault's blessing to rejoin the Navy and even after other Flying Tigers tried to get him in the Flying Tiger Association , he was denied because he had left early. I believe that that peeved him a little.

Edited by BenL : August 18, 2015, 6:56 pm
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Percy Barlett
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
To clarify further for our AVG Forum members:

Please note the attached CAMCO contract of AVG 1st Squadron pilot George T. Burgard.  This will help you to understand the legal ramifications of working for the AVG.  Don't forget that, though this was a covert operation with a cover organization (CAMCO) under authority of President FDR, there was still a civilian legal contract drawn up during peacetime in the U.S.

There is no mention of DISCHARGE (honorable or dishonorable).  Please examine ARTICLE 5 for the causes of immediate termination by the employer.

The concept of DISCHARGE would have come later, after 8 Dec (in the Far East) when the AVG Americans were now operating under wartime conditions.  Into the spring of '42 Col. Chennault had been inducted into the U.S. Army Air Force and held the rank of Brig. Gen.  At this point military standards were now more in use.....and don't forget, the AVG pilots had ALL been commissioned military officers and many of the groundcrew had been military enlisted----they had all been trained in military discipline.  This "ragtag" description is the nonsense that grows out of selling documentaries and books.  True, they dispensed with formal uniforms, salutes, ranks, etc. but Chennault insisted on complete discipline in the air----the business end of the proposition.  As mentioned earlier there is evidence that some discharges were reported to military authorities so that they could investigate possible desertion charges against early departing AVG members.

Please also note ARTICLE 4----if return transportation was not arranged at the end of the CAMCO contract, then $500 was to be paid to each AVG member for the cost of said return transportation.  This did not occur and the AVG mostly had to pay for their own return.....a further pain and insult inflicted by generals Arnold, Stillwell & Bissell upon the AVG for their service and sacrifice.

Finally, regarding Noel Bacon.....an accomplished AVG pilot, pallbearer in John Armstrong's funeral, Flight Leader in the 2nd Squadron "Panda Bears", paid for 3.5 Japanese aircraft destroyed and close personal friend of many AVG.  There is documentary evidence of a travel permit for Bacon, authorized by Chennault, for his return stateside due to the illness of his father.  Bacon was married while stateside and this resulted in his "discharge" (since this reason would not have justified a travel permit from the AVG).  Bacon returned to a career of distinguished naval service and retired with the rank of Captain.  There is even a later letter from Chennault informing Bacon that he had been awarded a medal by the Republic of China and this letter expresses admiration for his service and personal affection to Bacon.  Chennault however, though pressed by many AVG, never did allow Bacon to enter the AVG Flying Tigers Association due to the reason for his departure.


Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
Flying Tigers Association


Edited by aaatripp : August 19, 2015, 10:35 am

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Percy Barlett
LydiaRossi
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Widow of AVG pilot J. R. Rossi
The story that was told to me about Noel Bacon is that he prevailed upon Chennault to go back to see his father who was reported to be on his death bed. Chennault agreed to a short leave, but Bacon never returned. The story goes on that Noel Bacon had a fiancee who said she would break up with him if he did not return home. He got married while on leave from the AVG. Then his father regained his health and lived many more years which caused Chennault to believe Bacon had made up the story about his father's illness.
Chennault considered any member who left without permission, and did not fulfill their contract, as deserters and he did not want any of them to be members of FTA.

Edited by aaatripp : January 8, 2017, 5:41 pm
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