Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register  


You are here: Index > Flying Tigers AVG Public > Public Discussions > Topic : ROC or PRC

2


Threaded Mode | Print  

ROC or PRC
Lincoln
Group: Member
Post Group: Working Newbie
Posts: 58
Status:
This may have changed, but last I knew the PRC refused to recognize the existence of the ROC.  Probably why the ROC people would be miffed about PRC attendance.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
markeyismarc
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 29
Status:
It is no surprise that ROC is miffed! After all, ROC has been in attendance for many years, and now, their sworn "enemy", PRC, wants to come to crash the party. PRC people (Communists) did nothing to help or assist the AVG. The Communists hid in caves in the far north of China and husbanded their Red army while the Nationalists (Chian Kai Shek) fought 99% of the war against the Japanese. The Reds were not even involved in the early-warning network either. Question for you Lydia -- Why was PRC only recently invited for the past 1 or 2 years? Is it maybe because in the younger days of the reunions, the AVGers would not have wanted PRC present? I am only speculating, and do not know how forthright the AVGers may have been with their true feelings regarding PRC. However, I am confident that out of respect for Chennault (who despised the Reds), when he was alive, the AVGers would not have welcomed PRC. Just my opinion. Finally, I do understand the recent interest in inviting PRC. After all, they are the governing entity that remains in China, and we are dependent upon them to tell the AVG story via museums, displays, and education. It's a difficult and uncomfortable situation indeed.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
BradSmith
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 14
Status:
Thank you for your good reply Lydia.  I believe the AVG (FTA) has been and can continue be a positive factor in the desirable rapprochement between the ROC and PRC.  THIS ARTICLE provides some hope that process may be gaining traction.  I hope to see representatives of both the ROC and PRC at the reunion in Dallas this year.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
mayor
Group: Member
Post Group: Working Member
Posts: 124
Status:

If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong
From everything I have read it was Chiang Kai Shek who requested the aid and not Mao, so the AVG was the aid they got.





Edited by mayor : February 24, 2014, 11:50 pm
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
markeyismarc
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 29
Status:
Quote From : mayor February 24, 2014, 11:48 pm
From everything I have read it was Chiang Kai Shek who requested the aid and not Mao, so the AVG was the aid they got.



Yes, of course it was CKS who requested aid from USA. Mao had no status in the China government. The Commies were kicked out of the Kuomingtang (Nationalist Party) in 1927. That led to the "Long March" 1933-1935 which was actually nothing but a big retreat of the Communists away from the attacking Nationalists. Even today, modern day Red China still glorifies the Long March. In actuality, the Communists pillaged, stole, and murdered all along their route. There are a few good books on the subject where the author has interviewed old survivors of this debacle. CSK was in the process of "finishing off" the Commies when he was kidnapped in 1936 in Xian which is know as the famous Xian Incident. I visited his place of being kidnapped and saw the rooms and bullet holes. The terms of his release mandated the "cooperation" between the Commies and Nationalists as a united front against the Japs, even though Mao's Red army had done very little fighting and sustained very minor loss of soldiers. For what it's worth, after the war ended, Chennault returned to China and purchased some surplus military aircraft and formed the Civil Air Transport (CAT) company to assist Chiang Kai Shek's Nationalist government during their battle (Civil War) with the Communists. CAT also aided the French forces in Indochina and later aided the forces fighting in Vietnam. Some of the pilots were from the 14th Air force and maybe some from the AVG, but I am not sure of who.  Let there be no doubt that Chennault sided with Chiang Kai Shek and the Nationalists over Mao and the Communists. Too bad that the USA "bailed out" on CKS via Truman's arms embargo. Chennault had testified that was a key factor in the loss of morale of the Nationalist forces. All the while, Mao's Communists Red army was receiving all of the armaments from Russia that the Japs had surrendered after the war. Truman lacked the foresight to envision the scourge of communism on the world stage. We are still paying the price for his miscalculation. We have already paid the price in fighting both the Korean War and Vietnam War against communist forces that were supported by Red China. Today, China supports North Korea, Iran, and Syria, and Russia supports the Syrian regime and Iranian regimes also.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
hc8mm
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 11
Status:
Sorry for bringing this old thread back. But I am surprised some of you all understood the history between the two Chinese governments. Today's American history text about China do not even mention all of this and mostly support Mao and the PRC version.

I just want to add, if you dig deeper into Truman's arms embargo and the American officials that were involved, many of them were communist moles too. They were trying to undermine the ROC while delaying economic aid and weapons to help stabilize China. The US govt wasn't the only one fill with CCP moles, the Nationalist government also had a bunch of them and were also effective. It was said, Stalin knew of the battle plans against Mao's army before Chiang even got to look at it! A lot of books today blame corruption as the lead cause, but the failing economy (after half century of war), deteriorating govt, communist moles, lack of support, were just some of the bigger issues I believe. A good majority of the Chinese fighting in Korea were mostly of the former nationalists and many of them actually were trained by the Americans but sadly were forced to fight only to prove to the PRC that they were loyal. The PRC didn't want them to come back anyways.

But I am surprised the OP asked this.. the AVG were American mercenaries hired by the Chinese government (ROC). The PRC never existed until late 1949. The ROC still exists today, although on Taiwan. Back in the 1970s, Taiwan gave out a lot of victory medals to servicemen who served in the CBI; trying mostly to help them not get kicked out of the UN or continue US recognition of the ROC as the legitimate govt of China. Many Vietnam vets that I have talked to said they were disappointed when the US abandoned Taiwan in 1979.


Edited by hc8mm : July 13, 2016, 6:55 pm
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
JackYao
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 8
Status:
I have attached an AVG/Flying Tiger-related item which is printed on paper with Chinese text, drawing, and flags of both the ROC and US.  The text explains that the American pilot(s) who were shot down during combat were in China to help the Chinese people to fight against the Japanese.  There is no PRC flag printed since PRC became a country in 1950.  So, going back to the original question which is about whether the Flying Tigers were helping the ROC or PRC.  The answer is quite obvious.  Please take a look at the two sides of this item that I own.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
JackYao
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 8
Status:
I am resubmitting the pictures (front and back) of my item.  The original file sizes were too big.  I had them reduced and hopefully it will work this time.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
LydiaRossi
Group: Moderator
Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 294
Status:

Widow of AVG pilot J. R. Rossi
Very interesting banners John.
What era are they from....what year?
You're right in that the PRC did not exist during the AVG days.
The US recognized Chiang Kai-shek as the leader of China so they were dealing with him.
Do you think that the US only wanted to support CKS? Wasn't the bigger issue to not let all of China fall to the Japanese? In that case, I believe the US and AVG were fighting for all of the Chinese people and homeland.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
markeyismarc
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 29
Status:
Quote From : hc8mm July 13, 2016, 6:53 pm
Sorry for bringing this old thread back. But I am surprised some of you all understood the history between the two Chinese governments. Today's American history text about China do not even mention all of this and mostly support Mao and the PRC version.

I just want to add, if you dig deeper into Truman's arms embargo and the American officials that were involved, many of them were communist moles too. They were trying to undermine the ROC while delaying economic aid and weapons to help stabilize China. The US govt wasn't the only one fill with CCP moles, the Nationalist government also had a bunch of them and were also effective. It was said, Stalin knew of the battle plans against Mao's army before Chiang even got to look at it! A lot of books today blame corruption as the lead cause, but the failing economy (after half century of war), deteriorating govt, communist moles, lack of support, were just some of the bigger issues I believe. A good majority of the Chinese fighting in Korea were mostly of the former nationalists and many of them actually were trained by the Americans but sadly were forced to fight only to prove to the PRC that they were loyal. The PRC didn't want them to come back anyways.

But I am surprised the OP asked this.. the AVG were American mercenaries hired by the Chinese government (ROC). The PRC never existed until late 1949. The ROC still exists today, although on Taiwan. Back in the 1970s, Taiwan gave out a lot of victory medals to servicemen who served in the CBI; trying mostly to help them not get kicked out of the UN or continue US recognition of the ROC as the legitimate govt of China. Many Vietnam vets that I have talked to said they were disappointed when the US abandoned Taiwan in 1979.


VERY well-stated hc8mm!!!! The US backed only the Nationalists (CKS) and NOT the Communists (Mao). Also, Chennault despised the Communists, and rightfully so!!! The US would have never permitted China to fall to Japan. Sure, the stupid arms embargo after war's end initiated by Truman hurt the nationalists, especially in light of the fact that Stalin turned-over all of the surrendered Japanese weapons from North China to the Communists. I have read that the quantity of weapons turned-over would be enough to equip a 1 million-man army for 10 years!!! Of course CSK was no angel, but he was a far better and moral person than Madman Mao who made Hitler and Stalin look like kindergarten kids due to all of the 40-70 millions of Chinese that he slaughtered. I do not mean to minimize the madness of Hitler and Stalin. I only want to show the relationship of the devastation caused by these 3 madmen. Mao was the greatest "conman" the world has ever seen. Trust me, China is still paying the price for following and being fooled by Madman Mao. Bottom line, the war against Japan was already won, and the US turned its back on CKS!!!!
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
SilverDollar
Group: Member
Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 344
Status:
To add just one thing, I had read that the communists and the Nationalists declared some kind of temporary truce until the Japanese were driven out of China.  Once that happened, they started up again and the rest is history. 


-----------------------
Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
hc8mm
Group: Member
Post Group: Newbie
Posts: 11
Status:
markeyismarc, I appreciate your comment. The PRC would later give us a lot of trouble in the Korean War, Vietnam War, and now with all these issues over a lot of these small islands and both provoking each other.

SilverDollar, yes there was a truce, but most Western sources (under communists influence) blame the Nationalists as breaking it. I don't know what really happened or who is really to be blamed, but I think the CCP should also take the blame as much as the Nationalists. I think in 1944, the truce started to break down.
IP: --   

ROC or PRC
LydiaRossi
Group: Moderator
Post Group: Elite Member
Posts: 294
Status:

Widow of AVG pilot J. R. Rossi
This was recently posted at the Facebook page AVG - Flying Tigers although it is a few years old apparently.  Another take on this subject by the Taipei Times.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2012/05/19/2 003533172
IP: --   

« Previous    Next »

Threaded Mode | Print  

2


Jump To :


Members who read this topic
robertm, Shawn, worldraft, dlmitx81, aaatripp, BradSmith, BillC, mayor, LydiaRossi, BenL, 3AVG@Toungoo, Radar21, CarolePetach, SilverDollar, hc8mm, Texasmatt, Lincoln, markeyismarc, JackYao, Richards


Users viewing this topic
1 guests, 0 users.



You are here: Index > Flying Tigers AVG Public > Public Discussions > Topic : ROC or PRC


All times are GMT -6. The time now is December 11, 2017, 10:47 pm.

  Powered By AEF 1.0.9 © 2007-2011 Electron Inc.Queries: 13  |  Page Created In:1.703