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Use of Flying Tiger name
SilverDollar
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Thanks Tripp.  I appreciate that.  When you combine a name, an animal and a urinal in the same concept, it tends to raise some attention. :D

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Use of Flying Tiger name
Shawn
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My father use to tell a story about the guy he shared his two man tent with woke him up one night buy screaming and throwing his blanket in his direction and ran out the tent.My father jump up and ran out after him with his rifle thinking the Japanese were attacking.The guy woke up with a Cobra sitting on his chest.

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saulniershawnp@yahoo.com
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Use of Flying Tiger name
mayor
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If I agreed with you, then we'd both be wrong
I wonder if a certain member of this board, who argued with me and essentially told me I was wrong in the other thread, has read this thread?

Thank you Lydia for clearing this up. Makes me feel better that I was mostly right, anyway.


As for the AVG being mercenaries, I always wondered if another reason they took that large amount of money is that these guys were brought up during the depression and it would be very difficult, indeed, to turn that kind of money, down.
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Use of Flying Tiger name
SilverDollar
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Quote From : mayor December 28, 2010, 9:28 am

As for the AVG being mercenaries, I always wondered if another reason they took that large amount of money is that these guys were brought up during the depression and it would be very difficult, indeed, to turn that kind of money, down.


I heard the same thing also.  From what I've read, the Great Depression was actually over sometime in 1943 or at least the effects were fully reversed by that time.  WWII helped to get the economy back to normal.  also, I read that the amount the Army was paying at the time was pitiful.  This looked like a great way to jump start yoour finances after you were done with the war. 

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Use of Flying Tiger name
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Rather than start a new thread, I think that it's much better to add onto this excellent thread started by Lydia Rossi which gives a lot of the details of the use of the Flying Tiger name.

I wanted to add something which I hope many of you will consider significant in confirming the use of the name.  While recently viewing GOD IS MY CO-PILOT (yes, it's a movie...Hollywood..., but the advisor was Col. Robert L. Scott the CO of the 23FG and the author of the book) I noticed that, at the very beginning of the film, the actor portraying Col. Scott (Dennis Morgan) is describing the organization and he clearly describes the 23FG as being AFTER the Flying Tigers.  Also, it is widely known that, in public, Gen. Scott would quickly correct people to tell them that he was not a Flying Tiger (even though he had flown with them prior to their disbandment and prior to his commanding the 23FG).

Col/Gen Robert L. Scott, in his retired years, was very devoted to the Museum of Aviation at Warner Robins AFB, Georgia.  It should be noted that, at this museum, they have 27 portraits of deceased AVG members which were commissioned by CAMCO head William Pawley just after WWII ended.  Due to space limitations only about 12 are displayed at a time.
      http://www.museumofaviation.org/


I guess you could call the Flying Tigers name info.....straight from the source.  If any of you Forum Followers see the movie, I'd be interested in your take on those opening comments?

Tripp

Edited by aaatripp : April 16, 2012, 9:51 am

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Use of Flying Tiger name
gemiller111
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I think there are men (and women) who truly understand the meaning of honor and others who think it is OK to accept a "reputation boost" that is not deserved.  General Scott is definitely in the first category- as are those warriors who win MOHs or other top medals and are genuine when they say they did nothing more than their fellows or that the ones who never came home are the real heroes.   
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Serving in the 14th AF was an honorable thing.  14th AF personnel fought in the war, people got shot at and killed, flying a fighter or bomber under combat conditions was dangerous even without being shot at, ground personnel worked under appalling conditions to keep the birds in the air.  What is there not to be proud of?  There is no need to try and share in the glory of another organization which preceded you in the area but was never part of your team.  Were the Rangers or the Airborne of June 1944 any more brave than the dogface in a landing craft taking the full brunt of the German guns at D-Day?  Folks just need to accept who and what they are, take pride in their own accomplishments, and follow the Commandment that speaks to not coveting that which is thy neighbors.   
:
Guy 
Aspired to be a fighter pilot but was discharged in the Carter downsizing, not a combat vet but believe those who are deserve all our thanks, but also proud that I have some old USMC uniforms in the closetand have some experiences and memories that most don't have. 


Edited by gemiller111 : April 13, 2012, 6:54 am
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Use of Flying Tiger name
SilverDollar
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I remember reading "God is My Copilot"  and I remember Sol. Scott saying that he flew WITH the AVG.  That's way different from saying he was with the AVG.  In the whole book, he never said ne was a member of the AVG.  He did state that they let him fly several missions with them but that's it.  Col. Scott may have had a large ego (he wouldn't have been able to do his job without it) but he was honest and never grabbed credit for anything he didn't personally do.  I'm glad this thread was revisited.  The AVG story must never be revised because the truth was forgotten. 

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Use of Flying Tiger name
avgbob
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Lydia: Thanks for informing forum members of what many of us know. Jo: R.T. gave me a copy of a letter from Bob Scott, who said the same thing he told you. I have a small collection of books, diaries, etc. at the Palm Springs Air Museum, so I explain a lot of the AVG, and that is one of the subjects that I clarify, as many people think all CATF and 14th are the Flying Tigers.


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Use of Flying Tiger name
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
Bob----thanks for posting that information. 

It would be very informative for the many readers at this AVG Forum if you could scan & post that letter from Col. Robert L. Scott.  If it's not possible to display the entire letter, could you please quote some of the key passages from Scott which explain his flights with the AVG and the transition from the Flying Tigers to the 23rd Fighter Group of the China Air Task Force (CATF).

Thanks & best regards,
Tripp


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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
Historical & Museums Committee
AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Use of Flying Tiger name
avgbob
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Okay, aaatripp:
ROBERT T. SMITH

Van Nuys, Ca 91405

26 Sept., 86
Milt Miller,
New York, NY 10009

Dear Milt Miller:

(Forum members: I am only printing the last 2 paragraphs of R.T. Smiths letter)

. . . As for your, and the 14th AF Associations, continued insistence on calling  yourselves Flying Tigers, I wonder how you people would feel if the situation were reversed. I believe that you would feel the same resentment that we of the AVG do, particularly since it was only after the war ended that you decided to capitalize on that unique name that had been conferred on the AVG. Some of your own outstanding leaders recognized the difference; General Chuck Stone tried his best many years ago to dissuade the 14th Air Force association from calling themselves  Flying Tigers. Others estimable former members of the CATF and the 14th AF have taken pains to dissociate themselves from the Flying Tigers; Genera John Alison, Bruce Holloway, and Robert L. Scott are names that come to mind. Recently I received a letter from Scott after he had read my book, and among other things he said, R.T., I agree with you  . . . I think you real members of the AVG REAL FLYING TIGERS who let me fly guest missions with them should own that name FLYING TIGERS solely. It. And of course there are several of our own AVG alumni who distinguished themselves in the CATF and/or 14th AF, such as Tex Hill, Chuck Older, and Ed Rector, who have strong feelings about outfit earned that unique title. Unfortunately, all have been shouted down by a voluble group of diehards in the 14th who represent thousands, many of whom are honest enough to admit that your position is pure bullshit.

If you believe in the fairness doctrine, Milt, I trust - that you will publish - this letter in its entirety. Meanwhile, thanks again for your nice comments about my book; Ive received quite a number of orders as a result, and thus far there have been no unfavorable comments.

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Use of Flying Tiger name
aaatripp
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cousin of Maax C. Hammer, Jr., AVG 22Sep41 RIP
AVGBOB:

Bob, Thanks for posting a portion of R.T. Smith's letter of 26 Sept. 1986 to Milt Miller of the 14AF Association.  It was very informative and offered us more insight into the controversy within the 14AF Assn., and the reasons why Tex Hill (a former 23FG commander, 14AF) resigned from the 14AF Assn. over their insistence of claiming the name "Flying Tigers".

In your Forum posting of 15 April 2012 you say:  "R.T. gave me a copy of a letter from Bob Scott"

Bob, it would be very informative for the many readers at this AVG Forum if you could scan & post that letter from Col. Robert L. Scott to R.T. Smith.  This sounds like a key historical link and we would like to see it.  Also, it would be a valuable document for use by the Flying Tigers Assn.....Thanks!
Tripp

Edited by aaatripp : May 14, 2012, 10:36 am

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Tripp

Tripp Alyn, chair
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AVG Flying Tigers Association
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Use of Flying Tiger name
LuannDolan
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Quote From : Shawn December 18, 2010, 2:37 pm
My father use to tell a story about the guy he shared his two man tent with woke him up one night buy screaming and throwing his blanket in his direction and ran out the tent.My father jump up and ran out after him with his rifle thinking the Japanese were attacking.The guy woke up with a Cobra sitting on his chest.


My father also use to tell a story about a cobra they found. They thought it would be funny to stake it up as if it were about to strike next to a bed where a guy was sleeping who was terrified of the big snakes (with good reason i always thought) What the "comedians" didn't know was the guy who they were screwing with slept with a loaded pistol under his pillow and upon being awakened and seeing the cobra he shot it!  Luann Dolan Waden
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Use of Flying Tiger name
SilverDollar
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I think I would have done the same thing.  I'm not too nuts about loose cobras in a room.  It makes me a might nervous.  :neu:

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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Use of Flying Tiger name
LuannDolan
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Quote From : SilverDollar August 8, 2012, 5:03 pm
I think I would have done the same thing.  I'm not too nuts about loose cobras in a room.  It makes me a might nervous.  :neu:


Well it was dead by that time lol
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Use of Flying Tiger name
SilverDollar
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I'm sure it was dead at the time but to me dead or alive, I shoot first and ask questions later.  LOL :xd:

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Sometimes a handful of patience is worth more than a truckload of brains. Author unknown.  Found in a fortune cookie and that's the honest truth.
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